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Hunting with black pwder muzzle loaders
#1
I need some help. I am doing some informal research on the extent of hunting allowed in various countries with bp ml guns and in this instance, specifically in the UK and Europe. I know for instance, that the use of ml's are not allowed in Britain, but seem to have seen articles published where ml shotguns were used in the UK.

Also, if members of this forum have information on other countries in the EU, this would be appreciated. I know that ml hunting is allowed in the US and Canada; also in South Africa.

Thanks in advance.
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#2
There is no distinction for shotguns in the UK.  Provided you have a shotgun licence you can shoot game anywhere the owner of the game allows you to.  Some shoot owners may well have their own rules banning ML shotguns but it is not a matter for the government.

In the UK the term 'hunt' does not apply to game shooting.  Just a matter of UK v US English usage.

W. S. (Bill) Curtis
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#3
Gunsport
Here in the UK we shoot game we do not hunt , to hunt was with horse and hounds which is now illegal. All of my game shooting which is mostly driven birds such as pheasant , partridge and grouse is with a sxs percussion muzzle loader or a black powder hammer gun. Any of these types of gun be it a muzzle loader or a black powder hammer gun  in the hands of a good shot can shoot  shot for shot as much game as a modern breech loader something that has been proven many times.
Feltwad
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#4
Like Feltwad (and with him sometimes I think) I shoot game birds with muzzle loading shotguns and BP cartridge hammer guns.

If I may, I would like to bring a related topic into this issue - if I could develop a load for a muzzle loading rifle that would be 'deer legal' in this country (say a lead bullet > .220" diameter, suitably modified to expand, and producing more than 1000 ft lbs ME), would there be any legal reason why I couldn't shoot deer, in this case Muntjac or CWD, in England?

Your thoughts please.
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#5
Quote:Like Feltwad (and with him sometimes I think) I shoot game birds with muzzle loading shotguns and BP cartridge hammer guns.

If I may, I would like to bring a related topic into this issue - if I could develop a load for a muzzle loading rifle that would be 'deer legal' in this country (say a lead bullet > .220" diameter, suitably modified to expand, and producing more than 1000 ft lbs ME), would there be any legal reason why I couldn't shoot deer, in this case Muntjac or CWD, in England?

Your thoughts please.

I've shot white tail deer and groundhogs here in Pennsylvania with .58/.577 rifle muskets using the Lyman 575213OS and 55g of FFFg @ under 100yds.  The wound channel is very much the same as using a .30/06 Springfield with a 150gr. expanding bullet at 2800fps. 
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#6
Like Feltwad (and with him sometimes I think) I shoot game birds with muzzle loading shotguns and BP cartridge hammer guns.

If I may, I would like to bring a related topic into this issue - if I could develop a load for a muzzle loading rifle that would be 'deer legal' in this country (say a lead bullet > .220" diameter, suitably modified to expand, and producing more than 1000 ft lbs ME), would there be any legal reason why I couldn't shoot deer, in this case Muntjac or CWD, in England?

Your thoughts please.

:-?Am I reading this right?? You want to use a .220 bullet to kill a deer sized animal with? Is that a metric measurment? At what range? I could be wrong here but that seems awfully small to me and I'd think you would wound more often than kill. If it were me I'd go larger like say .440 round ball with a .10 patch and 65 grains of FFFG black powder. The soft lead ball expands well, there's enough powder behind it to get you out to at least 100 yards, you should have a pass through (unless you hit bone) and it's a .45 cal. gun. Anything smaller would, in my opinion be irresponsible on the "hunters" part. You want to take game quickly and cleanly.
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#7
In some states in the US they have an earlier hunting season for those shooting muzzle loading rifles. Then they started making rifles that shoot very hard with sabots and even mounted scopes which defeated the purpose of allowing additional hunting days for we who use smoke polls.

I have never heard of a seperate season for those shooting birds with Muzzle loading shotguns however.  As far as I know you can use either interchangably. I seldom see them though, unless at special BP meets.
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#8
Quote:Like Feltwad (and with him sometimes I think) I shoot game birds with muzzle loading shotguns and BP cartridge hammer guns.

If I may, I would like to bring a related topic into this issue - if I could develop a load for a muzzle loading rifle that would be 'deer legal' in this country (say a lead bullet > .220" diameter, suitably modified to expand, and producing more than 1000 ft lbs ME), would there be any legal reason why I couldn't shoot deer, in this case Muntjac or CWD, in England?

Your thoughts please.

:-?Am I reading this right?? You want to use a .220 bullet to kill a deer sized animal with? Is that a metric measurment? At what range? I could be wrong here but that seems awfully small to me and I'd think you would wound more often than kill. If it were me I'd go larger like say .440 round ball with a .10 patch and 65 grains of FFFG black powder. The soft lead ball expands well, there's enough powder behind it to get you out to at least 100 yards, you should have a pass through (unless you hit bone) and it's a .45 cal. gun. Anything smaller would, in my opinion be irresponsible on the "hunters" part. You want to take game quickly and cleanly.

Okay, I don't know the rules in Britain, but I'd just load one of those BP shells with a round ball of the proper size and bang away with your shotgun.  Up to say, 40 yds it'll be deadly.  That is perfectly legal over here.  But we can also own machine guns with silencers attached (with a Class III license). So things gunish are different between thee and me.
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#9
A muntjac is a very small deer, only about the size of a collie dog.
W. S. (Bill) Curtis
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#10
I would never hunt game of any size with anything smaller than a .440 ball.  I think a .498 ball is even better.  I have an old muzzle loader that looks as if it came along  the Oregon Trail in the 1840's.  It must have been used to kill buffalo.  (I refuse to call those wonderful beasts a "bison".)  That gun is a 50 cal. 

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