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Hunting with black pwder muzzle loaders
#11
Quote:A muntjac is a very small deer, only about the size of a collie dog.

Do they run wild in Great Britain?  I've never heard of one until just now!
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#12
They are not native to the British Isles but have run wild after escaping from collections.  Their origin is, I think, China but they are now widespread, especially in south east England.  They are noisy little beggars in the rutting season given their small size.  They are quite often 'road-kill'.  My daughter in law fell foul of one which crumpled up the panel below the front bumper. They wander around at night and are rarely seen in the day.  I understand they are quite good eating.
W. S. (Bill) Curtis
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#13
Quote:They are not native to the British Isles but have run wild after escaping from collections.  Their origin is, I think, China but they are now widespread, especially in south east England.  They are noisy little beggars in the rutting season given their small size.  They are quite often 'road-kill'.  My daughter in law fell foul of one which crumpled up the panel below the front bumper. They wander around at night and are rarely seen in the day.  I understand they are quite good eating.

That just blows me away!  I've never heard of a muntjak. I'm going to google it.  Now if the next time I go to the UK and mention this beast they aren't going to fall over laughing are they?  You know, like the imfamous Mid-west American Snipe?
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#14
Our home range (http://www.stourportonsevernpistolnrifleclub.co.uk) has a bit of overgrown land surrounding it on which we occasionally spot muntjacs.
Fred
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#15
The reason for my original asking was to see how many countries allow animal hunting (shooting) with muzzle loading guns; both rifle and shotgun. In 2004 we were subjected severe firearms restrictions (based on the Canadian model); but muzzle loading firearms were/are still ’off ticket’. Naturally, there was a move by hunters to look at hunting game with muzzle loading rifles; a sport which is growing in South Africa; along with bow hunting.

Currently, we have no restrictions on calibers size or muzzle energy iro of the game we hunt but common sense tends to prevail in most instances. Popular calibers over here for hunting the smaller species are the .50 cal rifles; mostly of American origin, using conical bullets. Larger animals are shot with calibers ranging from the .54 cal, through to 8 bore rifles. A growing number of purists argue in favour of the patched round ball as the better projectile and these, especially in the bigger calibers, have given very good account of themselves.

Game hunted (sorry!) include everything from the diminutive Duiker, through Springbuck, Bles buck, Kudu and even Gemsbuck. Giraffe have been taken, as has Cape Buffalo. Some American hunters have ‘discovered’ muzzle gun hunting in SA and this past year I accompanied two US hunters who took a range of game with .58 cal rifles, using patched ball. We tend to keep our shots on game to within 100m and animals are taken cleanly and ethically. In the past four years, I have hunted exclusively with a .577 3 band Enfield (original), using ball and have had excellent results.
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#16
The subject of big game loads for round ball rifles was dealt with at length in the two editions of The Sporting Rifle And Its Projectiles by James Forsyth of the Indian Forestry Service.  The 1st Edn was 1863 and dealt entirely with muzzle loaders and the 2nd was 1867 and brings in the breech loaders.  His conclusions were the same for both. 12 or 10 bore, round ball, very slow twist about one in twelve feet, and a very large charge.  I think his was the ultimate answer for muzzle loaders but, of course, with nitro, jacketed bullets, and other modern developments his system was no longer valid.
W. S. (Bill) Curtis
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#17
Hi there just a few things I have for you.

First to hunt (pleas do not worry about the semantics, this is a web site thus it is international, it is a shooting related blog so the chance of any one here referring to hunting meaning hunting with dogs and horses is unlikely.) with a muzzle loading rifle in the UK is perfectly legal!  I do not know who said it is not but they need to check their facts.
It (the gun and the person) has to adhere to cretin conditions.
For instance it has to have 17000 ft/lb muzzle energy; I am not shur if this is terminal or muzzle.
It has to be over a cretin calibre.
You have to be able to shoot a 4” by 4” at 100m
You have to have written permission to hunt on some ones land with a gun.
You do not even have to have any training, but it is advisable to have a DS1.

So let’s look at these requirements a ML rifle that could quit easily do this for a new-be.
As a new-be you probably do not want a very expensive gun (no not a field gun that is for shooting shells and has wheals, semantics again. And this is a hand firearm blog remember.)
So let’s look at your option, I hunt in South Africa almost every year, with ML. the largest game I hunt is Kudu, it’s a little bigger than UK deer. Out there I have a lyman .54 deer stalker rifle.
Load I use for bush buck (deer size buck) is 120 grain Pyrodex equivalent, I would not recommend black powder, there are too many legal issues, and there are no advantages.  Now this is the nice thing about a muzzle loader over modern guns. I can virtually shoot every type of game in Africa that I want with this gun by just changing the projectile. A .44 sabot of about 350 g for tight boosh I use hand gun .44 magnum self-defence bullet for more open areas only up to 100m I use some of the ML specific sabots.

If it is over-cast I put a scope on but normally just have open sights, not iron sights but ones with fibber in.

Out here in the UK I only target shoot with my ML ders. I can shoot a minuet
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#18
Out here in the UK I only target shoot with my ML ders. I can shoot a minuet of an angle with both my side by side .50 rifle and my single. For a person who was going to hunt in the UK with a ML I would suggest a TC Omega with a scope in .50.
With this you could shoot fox and all the deer’s.
To hunt out side of the UK in South Africa is very straight forward. In SA a ML dose not need a license, it is considered ridicules! If you where to want to rob a bank you would not go to a gun fight with an antique! So the problem comes in getting your guns in and out of the UK, this is not a problem either. So the next, this is getting powder in SA this needs to be done by any gun owner from a gun shop. Your PH can do this for you. (This would be a local BP equivalent similar to pyrodex, if you really wanted to hunt with BP, I would suggest you get on to “white smoke” blog and they will help you out.)
Ps if you have ever considered hunting in Africa, do it! DO IT!! Really it is the most fantastic thing ever! But you have to be pretty fit, so don’t put it off!


Hope this is of some help.
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#19
Sorry just have to add some thing more. Hunting with a ML in Africa is not going to guarantee you any success. Three years ago I was out there for a week and half, my buddy shot a mounting ribuck and a Kudu. I did not even get to pull the trigger on a buck! Came pretty close but did not! But that is not the point, with a ML you are in the animal’s sensory zone, 100m or less, this is game on! Unlike bow hunting where you site in a blind, with a ML you track and shoot. I can not describe the smell of the boosh, the tension when you know a buck is just in front of you! When you see it, you kok, and cap, and the few seconds when you cant hear anything or see anything from the smock and the bang!! The thrill of a clean kill, and then eating the meat of African game that has been well prepared after a hard day out hunting and field dressing a buck! If you have ever considered this, even as a small boy, you have to do it! Just once!
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#20
Quote:There is no distinction for shotguns in the UK.  Provided you have a shotgun licence you can shoot game anywhere the owner of the game allows you to.  Some shoot owners may well have their own rules banning ML shotguns but it is not a matter for the government.

In the UK the term 'hunt' does not apply to game shooting.  Just a matter of UK v US English usage.

Here in the US the laws varies with the state, but most allow muzzle loading hunting and even have an early season for it.  Then they started to make ultra modern muzzle loaders which shoot hard and some laws have been restricted for those guns, they being treated like any other modern gun.

One of the problems with muzzle loading hunting is the burning patch can cause a fire, since they can smolder for some time before going out.  Many clubs will not shoot inthe summertime in the wilderness for this reason and land owners are correct to be cautious.
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